S1E8: Our Two Years w/ Neil
In this episode, I chat with my husband, Neil. We talk about our experience with COVID, how we made our decisions about vaccination, and so much more.
Resources we may have talked about:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2114583
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04186-8
Podcast Transcript
Tish 00:00
Welcome to strong bodies by Tish podcast, I am so excited that I finally have this podcast on this platform to share my experiences with you. 30 years of experience, I love to talk, I love to share my stories through this podcast, I hope we get inspired, motivated to live a happier, healthier life. Please enjoy. So thank you so much for joining in on this podcast. For those of you who have not yet met my husband, this is Neil. Neil is a pretty private guy. So this is a big thing for him. So thank you, I mean for coming on here. Just a little bit about Neil, we have been married for gosh, 11 years now, together for 615 15, almost 16 years can't even believe that that is what's going on with us. But we now work in the home together. So we typically kind of get our stations of where we want to work in the house. And then we come together at the end of the evening in our hot tub, and kind of talk about what happened in our events for the day. And we usually talk a lot about the COVID situation. And that's sort of why we're on today, we want to really explain to the people who are interested, why we, Neal and I have decided not to get vaccinated. This is a very sensitive subject. And it's a little nerve wracking. I don't know how you feel you're probably aren't as nervous as I am. But I have received a lot of feedback from people who have been openly expressed or are openly expressing themselves, and have received a lot of backlash, a lot of hate, a lot of negativity. And if warned me to probably not do this, I think you actually at one point does that. Were discouraging me to do this. But I have to be true to first of all the people who want to know, and also true to myself. And I do feel that there's probably a lot of people that are in the same situation, as Neil and I are, are right now, and maybe are not comfortable or brave enough to share their story or don't have the platform to do so. So I thought maybe if we could sit here and sort of talk about where we are, how we got to where we are, maybe there would be a little more understanding amongst some people. And hopefully, we can just open our minds a little bit. Because I think right now there's a lot of closed minds. And I think it's so important that we all try to listen to each and every person that has a story that's going we're all going through this, but some of us have just decided to go a different route. And I think that that's important that I am honest and open and share sort of where we got there, or got here. First of all, start by saying that it is not a very fun situation to be in none of us. I think we're all very tired. Everybody. Yeah, it
Neil 03:41
doesn't matter what side you're everybody's done
Tish 03:43
exactly. And we also probably should be very clear that we don't look down upon or think negatively of anyone who has decided to get I don't even know if we should be saying that word V. Because we were all told, gosh, seven or eight months ago that this was going to end our pandemic we were going to carry on with our lives, we are going to be able to travel we are going to live like normal human beings again. And we're all very much looking forward to that. And as we all can see now that this is not actually what's happening. But let's just go back and talk about how Neil and I got to where we are in terms of deciding not to get the fee. So basically how it started for us is I we live in Kelowna. But I made a trip to Calgary to finish my tattoo in early spring. So end of March, early April of 2021. And I drove it was a nice I love that I actually love that drive. It's So incredibly beautiful. Don't do it in the winter but in the summer. I love it. So I put my favorite podcasts on, listen got gas once, maybe twice can't remember that literally was my only stop and spent three or four evenings, fun evening evenings in Calgary. At the time that I was there I spent four or five hours getting my tattoo finished or I don't know if I got finished, but we worked on it. And then because of course, we lived there for so long. There's a lot of people that we want to see so I kind of organized a little get together. I had rented a tiny little house in what does that area called Sunnyside? Sunnyside. Because I had tempest with me, Neil at the time, had really was really struggling with a bulging disc and sciatica. So he just was out of commission to a come with me, but also couldn't take care of a bratty puppy. So we I took can be rented this house, so I could take care of her. So I organize a small little get together because I knew that I didn't have time to see everyone, individually. And I did say please don't feel stressed about or pressure to come to the little get together. And because obviously we COVID There were some restrictions. I wanted to make sure everyone felt comfortable. And obviously said if you're not feeling well, don't come. So I think in our tiny little house I rented super tiny, like maybe 800 square feet, maybe not even quite. I had a little get together. I think there was like six or seven of us. And we shared some sushi and some wine and we had an awesome time. And there was hugging there was sipping wine, no masks. And the next day. I got up early did a live workout, which I was scheduled to do on Instagram. Then I got on my car and Tammy and I headed home. And on the way home. I did feel a little bit rundown, a little bit tired. When I got home, Neil does all of our cooking. I know I'm very lucky. And so when I arrived home in the evening, my favorite meal steak, kale, Caesar salad. Potatoes was all waiting for me. He made me feel like he missed me, which was kind of nice. And then I sat down to eat and I'm a good eater, and I had no appetite. None and I don't think I had eaten much on the drive. Maybe it's just a few snacks. So I said to him, you know, this is very strange, but I don't really feel like eating. He said you're probably just run down. I had just finished a big lunch for my my business. And he's like you're probably just run down. So I actually ended up just hanging out going to bed pretty early. I woke up the next day and I had made plans to see my parents the next day. And I just thought laying in bed. I wonder if I should get tested because I because I'm so in tuned to my body. I could tell that it wasn't quite just being run down. Very mild symptoms. But because my parents are both in a in a category of being more high risk. They
Neil 08:32
I thought you were just being crazy.
Tish 08:34
Yes, I know. That's Yes. And that made the right choice. Yeah, exactly. And you do honestly, probably most of the time think I'm over exaggerating and make up weird things. Know
Neil 08:47
what that time I
Tish 08:48
thought you were? Yeah, you usually do. But that's okay. Well, we won't get into that because we have a lot to talk about today. So anyway, I was new. I was seeing my parents the next day I really didn't want to risk putting them I harmed my mom. My dad is most of you. Maybe none of you know, but he has a lung disease. So of course we really need to be careful with him. And at that time, none of them had been vade I don't think
Neil 09:22
No, I think that's right. Yeah. It wasn't till the summer that they really started to roll it out.
Tish 09:28
Right. Right. And so what got tested came home within a few hours. Lo and behold I tested positive for COVID And they told me to quarantine for two weeks. Stay away from Neil separate rooms No sleeping together wear masks and I swiped core said to him and he just said no this
Neil 09:58
would have been disingenuous To suggest that like, by the time we even got that information we'd already, like slept in our room for like three or four nights. Right? Like to even at that point, tell the health officials that. Yeah, fine, we'll just stay in separate parts of the house by that is already over like it Yes. There was like no reason to change our behavior for Exactly, yeah.
Tish 10:25
So it just didn't make any sense we had already decided that if I tested positive, chances are he was eventually going to get it. And then we were almost kind of relieved because we felt like we would have some natural immunity. A lot was still being unknown, or we're still learning a lot about that. But this is sort of our was sort of our thought patterns at this time with what information we knew.
Neil 10:52
It couldn't be bad. Really, you know, because I think even at the time, it was already pretty well understood that younger folk, Healthy People weren't really suffering negatively. There's the odd like anecdotal story, obviously, about younger people that were maybe struggling in different ways. But I know I certainly took that view, I think you probably took the view that it wasn't really, we weren't threatened by it, we didn't feel afraid by it. Now, the idea of getting COVID probably wasn't going to be that big a thing.
Tish 11:25
Exactly. I, when I got the phone call, I didn't at all feel nervous or afraid, because I was quite confident that I had already had it for a few days, and just felt tired. When I looked up, I had a tiny little headache, but mostly just a little bit more fatigued than usual. And I think that's why sometimes it's for people who are young and healthy. Yes, I do call myself young. He's six years younger than me. I know, it's hard to tell. But when you're young and healthy, you you have the confidence that you're going to just at least I did, I don't want to speak for everyone, I felt like I was going to be okay. And I also felt more than comfortable. allowing him to have it or get it if he if he so in fact, tested positive eventually, of course, followed proper protocol called all of the people who I'd have had had the get together with with the sushi, and the wine and my tattoo artist, and call them all they all went and got tested right away. Every single person came back with a negative test, which was shocking to me. And I thought, Wow, maybe this isn't contagious. Stronger, strange, or what is it? Strand? Strand, very variant. Thank you. But that was a big shock for me. Because we were in such a small area. We were indoors. We had definitely been sharing wine. So that was a bit of a shock to me. And a week, probably a week went by where you were like, I'm not going to
Neil 13:06
go it was for us. It was more like eight or nine days. Right? Because you got home on a Sunday, tested positive on or got tested on Monday got results on like Tuesday or Wednesday. And it was like the following Wednesday or Thursday before. So you had our I had already been exposed to you for like eight or nine days, maybe even 10 days. By the time I felt I was showing the same symptoms that you have.
Tish 13:33
Right. You woke up one morning and said I feel you had a sore throat. No, no, no, I had a headache headache. And you were tired.
Neil 13:43
After walking the dogs right for two days in a row. I was tired. Yes. That was the extent of mice. Right? You lost your taste. Yes.
Tish 13:51
Yes, I did lose my taste and smell which I'll be honest, was the worst part for me. I love all the lotions and potions and the perfumes and all of that was gone. I know it sounds trivial. But when it happens, it is quite something. And even more importantly, the no tasting was awful. I love food, I enjoy eating food and to sit down and to be hungry. And to not be able to taste was quite something I saw was awful. And I was concerned because I had heard that sometimes people don't get that back for months. And I just could not even imagine not being able to taste my food for more than a couple of weeks. Thankfully, after a week or so. I was able to regain my smell and taste back almost 100% which was a great relief. And so then he obviously then had to quarantine from the day he started showing symptoms 14 more days so you are stuck inside for almost a full month. Yep. We followed all the rules. Obviously, there's still so much learning that was going on. This is such an unusual experience for all of us to go through. We want to make sure that we're doing our part to follow the rules and believed that, that this was something that we all should do. We were on board. And we, up until just recently, we're on board for everything, because again, there's so much learning. quarantining when there was the first lockdown, masking, respecting people space, washing your hands, all of the things that we were told to do we follow because of course, we all wanted this to go away and carry on with her life. And then the the vaccines started rolling out. And I was on, I've never had a flu shot. And I know this is not a flu shot, but I also never get a flu shot. I am not anti vaccine. i If I had children I absolutely would have vaccinated them for and I think you would be totally too. Yeah, I
Neil 16:08
don't think either one of us would ever say we're anti vaccine. No. Like, we would have doubts. Whatever. Like all I don't even know what they are. Because we don't have kids, right. Like, the laundry list of things that children get like, I don't think that there's any pushback on any of this?
Tish 16:23
Absolutely not. And I think because we know a lot, we never had the flu shot, or because we had COVID and felt like we had immunity. Our staff is like, let's just make sure that the people who are vulnerable, the elderly, the people with Cormo, core mobility, what does it?
Neil 16:43
I don't think we're supposed to use that term anymore. Okay, it was comorbidity, I think some bookstore probably stepped in and said, That's not appropriate. So, okay. underlying medical condition,
Tish 16:55
thank you. This is why we have him joining me because, you know, I, he needs to make sure I'm using the proper terminology. And getting all my facts straight. He has the brain, that's everything stays in mind kind of goes in this way and not the other way. So he's here to help make sure that I am getting the facts completely straight. And making sure I'm speaking as clearly as I possibly can, because as you all know, I love to just go off on these tangents. So we that was our stance, and that was in the early beginning of summer. We just really felt comfortable that we had had some natural immunity. We weren't risking anyone. We were healthy. We were really stepping up our lifestyle habits to make sure we were staying as healthy as we possibly could. Not just for ourselves, but for the people that we were spending our time with. Neil's parents live in Kelowna as well, as well as mine. And that's what happened. Your parents got the Wii, my parents got the Wii, we were happy that they did we still to this day believe that they should get it. I mean, that's how I feel. I don't know how you feel. But
Neil 18:06
I think the data suggests that they should.
Tish 18:09
Yes. And I think that that's one thing we should probably a couple of things I wanted to say before we continue on is Neil and I feel the exact same way. He is not swaying me in one direction. I'm not swaying him in any direction together, we've come to as, as a couple with our information that we have acquired, that we are on the exact same page and we support each other, whether or not if we do change our mind. I don't see that ever happening. I'm not speaking for you
Neil 18:42
Never is a long time. But like, yeah, at this point.
Tish 18:45
No, I agree with you. Yes. But we also see,
Neil 18:48
there's, there's obviously influence, you know, from one another, but it's not like it's one sided in any way, shape or form, right? Like there's always like, oh, did you see this thing? Or did I see that or whatever the case is, and and see. And even and I think it's important to balance everybody's view with counter information as best as you can and to make sure you're not living in an echo chamber and to make sure that you are looking at sort of like the totality of evidence when you make these decisions. Exactly. But it's, you can't really say I don't think you can say that we've had no influence on one another, we live together, we spent a lot of time together, but it's not like you're pushing me in one direction or I'm pushing you in one direction. Like we just sort of, we've landed in the same place and the influence is good, but you know, undue influence, I think is probably a bad thing, which isn't, doesn't exist here.
Tish 19:45
No. So and the other thing is, is I just wanted to say before I we continue to tell sort of what's been going on with us is that when you are when you make a decision to go against What the majority is, and in this case it was to get the Wii U become more you, you make it more of a responsibility to make sure you are up to date with the latest information. And that is from real journals. And Google, although we sometimes have been criticized for, you know what's on the internet, but
Neil 20:24
Well, I think I think it's important to like, before you go any any further down the path, I think it's really important to address like, a couple of big push backs, right? Like, the biggest pushback that you hear. And I don't want to make it sound like it's like, your side or my side or whatever now, like, the biggest pushback that we hear, on our point of view, is always do your research on the internet. It's like well, yeah, dummy, like, as long as you're smart about where you're getting your information, where, and I'm talking about information from sort of the most credible medical journals that you can read. And unfortunately, a lot of them are online, like the New England Journal of Medicine, the lancet out of the UK, even government data, I don't think there's anybody sitting here and telling you a story about how we're doing our research on Instagram and Facebook. That's not what's going on. And the second pushback as well, you know, you're not doctor, so, you know, why are you qualified to offer advice, and I think there's two things there one, not offering advice to anybody. And two, I'm not going to be disparaging to doctors, it's not at all what I'm trying to say with this, but to read to be able to read and understand the study. And, I think, is is not necessarily something that has to be defined within the medical field. I mean, if we're looking at studies that cover 10s, or hundreds, or however many 1000s of people, and it's really just sort of a sort of a report of empirical evidence. And at that point, you're talking more about like probability and statistics than you are about medical doctoring? You know, I, in no way is anybody going to sit here and say, I can diagnose a patient better than a medical doctor could, but I will say, I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably good at reading facts and data and coming up with my own interpretation of the statistics and the probability and understanding things like confidence intervals. And statistical significance is something that I don't I think there's a lot of people that understand that, but that that is a more important skill set than, you know, quote, unquote, being a doctor, because I've heard that directly. You have to, we know who we're talking about, get criticism all the time from it, but it's not. Again, I don't think anybody here believes that we know better than anybody else. No, I think we believe we know better for ourselves than what other people are telling us, generally speaking. And and really, it's like, like you said, like nobody, we're not opposed to vaccines, we're not opposed to helping get through this whole thing. I don't think anybody's suggesting that. I know, I can speak for myself. And I think you agree, I'm just opposed to vaccine mandates. I just believe that people should be free to make their own decision decisions for their own bodies and their own. And now Now the other one that kind of come into well, you do have a choice. It's like, well, technically, yes. But in reality, no, that is, that's not a choice. That is just not a choice. If you want to reach out to me directly, we can have that conversation. It's not, it's not a choice. In fact, in fact, it doesn't really impact our day to day lives that much, really. But the thing that kind of gets under my skin more than anything else is this creation of sort of two tiers of society. And that weighs heavy on both of us. Yes. It's like, Well, okay, I can't go out for dinner, which is kind of stupid. Because we're pretty good customers. But that's not the thing. That's really the the driving point here. The thing that's sort of always in the back of my mind for sure. Is that I'm not a full participating member of society today. And that just doesn't sit well.
Tish 24:45
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that that's the big thing is a lot of people say, Well, you have your choice. You can have your freedom as well, and we really MFAT I think we both emphatically agree that that it's not Freedom that you're granted, if you agree to take the vaccine it is permission. And I have said this over and over and over again, to the people closest to me, my my parents, they've just begged us to just, you know, get the V. So we can live more normally. So we don't feel such a, you know, it's lonely at times, they just said, you can still fight what you believe in, just get vaccinated. So you can and, and I have said to my, my parents, and quite a few close friends, because I haven't really shared this at all yet. I've said, I have pictured myself getting in the car on like, probably more than 100 times by now driving to get my, the vaccine vaccine, and I've pictured it, and I have opened my mind to it. And every single time, every single time, I think about maybe doing it, I break down and I I know that I will be absolutely the most. So I would be so incredibly disappointed in myself. Because, again, I was raised, I guess we were probably both raised the same way. When you believe in something, doesn't matter how difficult it gets, you have to stick with what you believe in, even when it gets hard. And I'm not at all saying that people are getting the V to make things easier. I think some people did. But also I do believe that a lot of people have a fear and are nervous about that. And And 100% If you are feeling that sort of thing, then you absolutely are entitled and should do what is right for you. But for Neil and I it is not an option. It just I I said this to my mom, if someone can give me some information and make me feel differently, then I would do it in a heartbeat. Because it's not fun. It is it's awful. I know I cry every single day. I know I see you struggling often. So making the decision to do what we've done is is not great? It's not terrible. I mean, there's definitely we're trying to live our lives as normally as we possibly can. But it's it's definitely something that is not easy. And so if I could be persuaded or are taught or someone can shed some light on, on me that with me or to me, then I would be more than happy more than happy to get a vaccine. But I just right now at this point, as we sit here, we're just not there.
Neil 28:00
Well, let's let's even sort of explore that just for a second too. Because like, I think as far as sort of the group of folks that have I hate the term vaccine hesitancy because it sort of has a weird negative connotation. So like, let's just say like the group of people that have decided not to get the vaccine, like, we're fortunate, right? Like, we live in a beautiful house, we have each other first and foremost, we have our own gym, and we've got a wall of wine that will probably put most restaurants out of business like we do, we like to be at home a lot too. So like We're the lucky ones, like I really, really empathize with like the person who lives in a condo who socializing was a huge part of their lives for and they've made the decision not to do this. And, you know, they're being penalized for that. And that that, to me is where it really gets at me, we could go way down the path of whatever psychological impacts that's happening on the population. I think it's reasonably identifiable at this point that there has been some if you don't believe that, again, I'd suggest that you look at some of the places where I've been reading a lot of things. But those are the people that are really, really empathize. Or the people that have children who have to, you know, make decisions for their family, for their kid to be able to participate in extracurricular sport, or be on this team or that or travel for different things, whether that's for ski racing, or playing hockey or whatever the case is like, those are the people that I really, really feel bad for. And I don't know what the solution is for those people in especially like it let's Let's talk about the rules. Let's talk about these rules like, I'm going to talk about British Columbia more than anything, because that's where we live, right. But the British colony is one of the places where you have to show proof in order to enter a lot of businesses, and there's not a negative test option. So in theory, like, let's say, here's a day, so Tisha, and I had a negative test, because we entered the country, we came back to the country, this is back in October, before the travel bans kind of came in. And we had a negative test, we had been isolating, following the rules doing what we were supposed to do. So we had a negative test, just out of curiosity, because it was it felt like it was kind of a day that we could maybe be less offensive to various different businesses really tried to go for a beer that afternoon, and needed to be go to two places for three to two. And at both places, like Well, do you have your proof of vaccination said, No, but I have a test that proves to you that I don't have a virus. And, you know, I feel for the businesses, because they've been put in a position to police a lot of this. And we'll say it's bullshit, because it is. So in theory, and we can get into some of the details about this, too, maybe we will in a minute. But in theory, you've got a room full of people that are sitting there enjoying whatever it is a beer, food, or whatever, and they're being served by somebody. All with the proof of vaccine. That word hurts every time I sit, and but any one of those people could be carrying a virus, we know this. Now, I'll give you the I'll give you the information. If you don't believe that this is a very easy point. And here to people with a test that proves to the person at the door that we are not carrying said virus, but because the rules in this province are the way they are. That's not a good thing. And it's ridiculous. I mean, even when they rolled this out, like, let's just call this what it is like, in for those that don't live in British Columbia. You don't need to show proof. If you enter a facility that serves food over our counter and doesn't serve alcohol, anything else have to show proof of any other restaurant, you have to show proof in gyms and all the other things we know about. But so then the difference between that facility and a restaurant where you sit down and get served, and it serves alcohol, the difference between those two places, basically, is a server that brings your stuff that takes your order and sits down at your end brings your food to your table. But that server doesn't have to show proof.
Neil 33:04
So again, like I I'm not I don't think anybody is a denier. On this side of the table. It I guess all I'm saying is I would like to see some if we're gonna have rules, let's just at least make them make sense.
Tish 33:22
Yes, exactly. And, you know, I've also talked to a couple of people who have told me their story of being envied and going to work for eight hours a day serving people. You know, serving? I don't know, if you've ever served, you've served your bartender.
Neil 33:47
Very sure.
Tish 33:48
Yes, me too. I was in schools and view. It's not a fun job. I mean, it's fun. I guess as when you're in university, it's the best probably job you can do pays the best. It's, you know, fun. And that the best part about working at restaurants like that is you get to sit down at the end of the shift and have a drink yourself. And you get to eat cuz you've been running around for like, who knows how long. I'm out eating, and you've been serving people. And the best part for me was to sit down and enjoy a meal and have someone serve me after a long day. And those people are allowed to work there for six, eight hours a day, but are not allowed to sit down and eat meal after. Which again, doesn't really make sense, and doesn't seem fair. A lot of this doesn't seem fair. And I think that that is the biggest reason why I felt like I needed to talk about this is because when you actually sit down and listen to the rules, there's no there's no rhyme or reason behind them. When you challenge people or ask questions. You're just told these are the rules. There's never an explanation as to why and we have gone to the highest level of authority to try to get answers, and not one person has provided us with one single explanation as to why these rules are set into place. I thought we would quickly talk about our experiences as as how what we've experienced as individuals and citizens who have decided to not get the VI. Because I think the divide is also something that is extremely disappointing. And
Neil 35:32
what's the most disappointing?
Tish 35:33
Yeah, yeah, I think that that is what I cry the most about. Because it's hurtful to see people treating people a certain way, because they have tried or are are reluctant to, to do something that isn't followed up with proper information or backup. And the more days that go by, the more information I read, the more comfortable I get with my decision. I wish that wasn't the case, I wish that I could get up and read some information that said, this is okay, it's safe, you're you are not going to get the virus, you are going to be able to live your life like a normal human being. But every single day, I read and watch and see that that is not happening even for the people who've decided to get the Wii. So I feel more and more comfortable with it. But I just I think it's important that we share what it is been like. And this is not me trying to have you feel sorry for us. Again, it's just a platform in which I can tell my story. And I think it's also an something that I can do for other people who've also been dealing with similar stories. The first one was when we flew from Canada, Vancouver to California, no problems. We obviously had a negative test flying into the country. I don't even think they looked to be honest
Neil 37:19
with you. The US? Yes. Well, first of all, was it hesitant test which, right? It's like 15 minutes, you get your results, right? No, I think that customs officer
Tish 37:32
did look, I can't remember. I was so happy to be there. It
Neil 37:36
was it was Yeah. super mellow. Yes.
Tish 37:39
We had a great time in California. We celebrated our 11th year anniversary, because we couldn't attend. Because we missed our 10th anniversary because of COVID. We we went to bat and it was still nice. It was fun. It was not our normal celebration. We get married, we got married and cinnamon. So we go there every year and celebrate. So the big 10 was involved. That's okay. firstworldproblems, really, and so we were so excited to have just feel like normal human beings, because there already were the mandates here in DC at this time, we'd already gone. I got Gosh, a couple of months without being able to do certain things that we right. Well, yeah,
Neil 38:27
but like even go take a step back. Like the reason why we went to California actually was because the mandates came in. And we're like, fuck you. Yeah, I think we can get on a plane and go to California and spend four nights eating out in restaurants and doing all the things that we want to do. We can't do it. Right. And that's what drove the decision. Right. And actually, we actually full disclosure. We tried to stay in the Okanagan. We're big, like, support local people. Yeah, that's true. But a lot of these mandates are making it a lot harder to support local. I'm just gonna say that for what it is. We tried. We tried to book a couple of nights at a hotel
Tish 39:04
Parramatta
Neil 39:06
and then have to call them out. But the Yeah, mandates came in, I called them they said they were going to enforce the rules that they've been told. And so we have to change your plans. So instead of spending dropping a couple $1,000 on a local economy here, we went to California.
Tish 39:28
And it was amazing. It was so nice. Why am I feeling sad about that? Well,
Neil 39:37
because it feels like a long time ago. And because of the experience that we have we came home. Like it's it's weird to this California, like if you kind of look at sort of all of the United States. It's like one of the more restrictive states frankly, but especially outside of the big cities. It's kind of life is normal. And it was. Yeah, it was fun. And it it's one thing to like, it's it's wild to say this, but having grown up in Canada and spent all of our lives here, this like, breath, this release when we landed in California was like it was really something it was you just kind of forgot about it all for like four days, but then then we came home. Yes. And it wasn't the same situation. No.
Tish 40:33
We obviously took it test, a PCR. So to get back into Canada, you are required to take a PCR test, which costs
Neil 40:45
over 200 Us 220.
Tish 40:48
So that was fine. You're more than happy to do that.
Neil 40:51
We know that like those are the rules. Yes. Yeah.
Tish 40:56
Yes, yeah, we were happy to do it. Took the test came back negative after four days of no mass, no isolation. Nothing incredible. And we get on the plane knowing that everyone also is required before flying, whether you're VT or not to at the time to show a negative test. So I'm still today. Oh, still today, you still have to show everybody
Neil 41:26
coming into Canada has to show okay, it whether you can't be on it. Oh, right.
Tish 41:32
Right. Right. Right. Right. So that's what's cheap, right? We get on the plane, we were given masks. And then the attendant comes on and recommends everyone use the mask that they provided because there are three plied. Please keep the mask on at all times. And if you if your row, if there's someone else in your row, what did they say? Is there someone else in your row sipping? And the mask is down? Keep yours up? Or if someone's standing breathing in your mouth? Yeah. If I was sitting listening to listening to this looking at Neil, like, am I living in? Like, what is happening? We're literally all just showed a negative test to get on this plane. What are we doing? And it just to me, you know, even when we were in the grocery stores a year ago, getting my produce listening to the intercom, please stay within six feet. And please refresh. And I remember listening to that on the intercom and looking at Neil and saying, What is going on here? What is happening? And we're rocking around like robots? And I don't know for some reason they can I say this brainwashing attempts. What? They weren't working for me at all. I just was like, Can they just stop with this? I mean, we're all wearing masks. We're all flying cars, we don't need to listen to it. The whole 30 minutes were in the mall. And the same thing on the plane and just like, what is happening, and everyone on the plane is taking their mask out of the plastic wrap and putting them on and I just thought I mean, what is happening to people think about what what they're asking you to do. And of course, we took off the mask and put it on and I wore it and I guess it was just the four days that we've been in California and felt normal. It just was incredibly difficult. But whatever. I we get home, we fly into Vancouver. And do you want to tell a story or should I? Because I might cry?
Neil 43:59
Oh, tell us okay. Um, yeah. So we arrived in Vancouver. And if anyone hasn't traveled, there's this app you're supposed to download. It's called the arrive can app and you're supposed to upload all your information into it. And it's the first time I had done it. So I messed it up. Right. So like we are we're Nexus so you know, are in the Nexus line. There's nobody there we walk right up to the customs officer and I've buttered this arrive canape thing didn't fill out properly. So she's like, okay, just go stand over there and just finish filling and she was lovely. She was lovely. It was like, wow, that's refreshing as a customs officer for once. And finally got it all done, get this code that comes up. Show it to them with the next card or at least the declaration that comes as you're not normally going through customs. And she really got to a point where in this thing she shows is well, you're Oh, you're unvaccinated and her demeanor on the spot on the spot just changed. And, you know, she had been very warm and welcoming. And hey ccommodate Aaron patient with us Yeah, to help with the whole app thing. And yeah, and right in that moment, and then she was, and I appreciate that this is on the website, but she was threatening us with up to three years in jail and a million dollars in fines, if we are found to not obey the isolation requirement, and we end up infecting somebody with COVID-19. And
Tish 45:48
they also said that we now had to be escorted to get out, and we needed to get tested again. And also the last thing she said to us, even though we literally had just shown her our negative tests that we had taken a few hours prior, the very last thing she said to us was, and if you infect anyone with COVID, we will find you and we will put you in jail,
Neil 46:16
quote, unquote, which Yeah, welcome home. So we did our thing, right, like, we just we go get the extra test. And I mean, it's no big deal. I'm going to try to stay away from opinions as much as I can try to stick my artifacts. But one opinion that I'm going to try will offer is that if this is truly about safety, and limiting the spread of COVID 19, which is what all of our government officials have told us that that's the objection objection. I think the evidence suggests now the only way to do that is going to be with more testing. So if it comes to testing, I'm happy to comply with it. I mean, there's definitely a limitation to that. But you know, test me every morning, I don't care. If I have COVID, I will go do some things. And if I do, or if I do have it, I'll stay home if I don't leave me alone. Like it's just well, maybe let's talk about those facts just to get it out of the way. Because I think there's really only two factual things that we need to talk about. One, I'll just list them and then we'll talk about one, it's become pretty obvious that the shot doesn't eliminate transmission doesn't eliminate infection, and may not even reduce that that the last part is a little bit of up for debate. And secondly, the fact that we had COVID. I think is that is important, though, you can't you can't ignore that. And there's a lot of evidence that suggests that. I'm going to say the term natural immunity, even though I was told by somebody that it's not a proper medical term, the CDC uses it. So natural immunity is a term. So it
Tish 48:12
and there's a lot of studies that are coming out that say it says natural immunity actually.
Neil 48:19
100% 100%. So let's do that one first. Like i What did I see yesterday? I think there's something like 130 studies now globally, that have tested natural immunity versus vaccinated immunity. And I think, almost unanimously with the exception of one test, and we can talk about that if we want to, but I mean, just ignore that. Also, like all but one of those tests, clearly shows natural immunity is as strong if not stronger than the vaccinated, immunity. And you know, do the I think really the only debate is like how much better isn't? You know, it, agree with it, don't agree with it, I don't care. There is a lot of study that suggests that. So to ignore that, even as part of the mandate that's going on in Canada now is, I think, probably irresponsible on the part of the rule makers. There's a lot of places in the world that actually takes natural immunity into account. They seem to put time limits on it, which is kind of an odd thing, because they're not putting time limits on the shot. But whatever it is, it's at least part of the discussion, at least in other places. It is not part of the discussion here, which is it is a little bit alarming to me. So I'd encourage you if you're at all curious about that. Read about it. There are like I said, I think it's in the neighborhood of 130 studies. Now, everything from this, the biggest study that was done was in Israel a couple of months ago. I think there's 700,000 people that were part of that. There's another Clinic and Cleveland are kind of the big headline ones that basically In that one, there's a there's a control group of people that had a group of folks, healthcare workers that had nap that had been infected. exactly zero of them had shown any kind of reinfection. So there's a lot of evidence that definitely supports that. The one that I've sure is going to be a little bit more contentious with people, is the concept that that the shot doesn't really have an impact on. It doesn't eliminate transmission, whether or not it reduces it, I think, is still a little bit up for debate. And it's certainly has it the period of time post injection is obviously something that has a big impact on this as well. But I mean, you just look at numbers, like if you pull up any press release from Ontario, because every day they report these numbers and over 50% of new cases are, are in the quote unquote, fully vaccinated group.
Tish 51:04
Can you say that one more time because I want people to hear that one more time? Because I think that you're giving a lot of information, but what you just said, is, I think really important, and where do you Where did you get that information?
Neil 51:20
From? Global News, CTV CBC, they all report? It they may not they may not say it on the news, right. But if you pull up sort of the press releases on their websites, they also an Ontario. It's interesting, I don't know why. But Ontario is one province that reports that split on a regular basis. So I've noticed it over the last month and it's pretty consistent. It's different every day is a little bit different. But it's pretty consistent that between 50 and 60% of the new cases in Ontario, are in fully vaccinated people. So that's the thing. Now, outcomes, the tinfoil hat, but like British Columbia doesn't report those numbers. But British Columbia does report those splits in vaccinated versus unvaccinated based on hospitalizations and ICUs. Very clearly, those numbers still support the idea that more people with severe outcomes are unvaccinated? Yes, for whatever reason. Seems to be effect. But the fact that British Columbia is not reporting not reporting new cases with that split, obviously means that there's a lot of vaccinated people getting the virus. Yes, it just does. They would report it. Otherwise, it's the same as like anytime that these guys in sports. Yeah. You know, like, what who was it? The Islanders? I think like 40, or this? Was it the senators first then the islanders, senators were like 40% of the roster tested positive. I think the islanders was not far off of them. You've had other guys like Sidney Crosby, for example.
Tish 53:07
The Bron James?
Neil 53:10
Yeah, they're all over. But it's funny to me in the how the media reports is that when somebody is unvaccinated, it's in the headline. But when they're vaccinated, it's either not mentioned or the very end of the story somewhere. So I think it's pretty clear at this point. And the best part about the sports things really interesting because one, they get tested more often. So you're just gonna find more cases, like if you look at the percentage of, of take the NHL, the percentage of players in the NHL that I think have tested positive, over the last bubble, actually over the pandemic is a much higher portion than the portion of people in the population. So all that they're just they're tested, right? So you're gonna find more breakthrough cases in that portion of the population. Yeah. And I don't know it's got it's, it all just comes back to the fact that this is a fact. At this point in time. The effectiveness of this shot is good for certain people, because it reduces their likelihood of severe from the disease, which means that that's a personal benefit to the shot. I think it's pretty clear at this point, we can say there's really no community benefit to the shot. Because people that have it are still catching it and spreading it to other people all over the place.
Tish 54:50
Well, I'm we've heard Theresa tam say that they carry on carry the same viral loads. Yeah, there's she I saw that on Oh, that's
Neil 54:57
a great point. Like what's your title? So, chief medical officer, whatever her title is, but she's like our Dr. Fauci. Like she very clearly is on video. Recently, mind you, but very clearly says it. Yeah, of course, vaccinated people can get spread the disease and like you said, a viral load seem to be very similar across both populations. So certainly not statistically different.
Tish 55:25
So my question is, then why, if that's the case, and everything is coming out, why are we still being mandated to live differently than the people who have decided to get the vaccine vaccine? And that is my biggest question. And that is my biggest diggin, because it just does not make any sense at all. And I think I'll just quickly talk talk about what happened a couple of weeks ago, when I went to the bow springs. Sure. Again, it's just a, I'm telling these stories, just because people need to understand how certain people are being treated. And again, I'm not looking for anyone's pity, or I don't want to anyone's empathy. It's just unbelievably cruel, to to hear what some people are going through. And I think it needs to be told the story needs to be told. I was asked by impact magazine. In the spring or summer, I don't remember when, if I would be one of the chosen top trainers to come to bath and conduct a four day wellness bootcamp at the Banff Springs Hotel. Of course, I jumped up on that opportunity, but was a little bit concerned because of my staff and medical status. So I called the bass Springs Hotel before I even agreed to it and just made sure that the rules were we're going to be I was going to be able to work around those rules being on VT. Basically, they said, Yeah, no problem, you just have to show a negative test within 72 hours. And you can enjoy basically the same as what Alberto was doing.
Neil 57:20
And so yeah, it was exactly in line with Yes.
Tish 57:23
And so I felt comfortable agreed to do this, and super excited. And I, within a few days, driving to bounce I received an email from I don't exactly know who it was, but he's like, head of organizing events or something. And he's just was excited to meet me in person was thankful that for me for doing the podcast about the retreat, I had the two other trainers on a couple days prior just to kind of bring up the hype and get the numbers going and bring some more awareness to it. So that was really nice with him. But then he did say, just to let you know, we are going to require you to show a negative test every single day while you're in the BAP Springs Hotel. And, you know, it didn't sit well with me. But again, I didn't want to cause any problems for impact magazine. I was so honored to be chosen. I was so excited to go. So I agreed. We go to the BAP springs, we have a negative test, because we're going into Alberta show we get a little card. And we enjoy first night bouncer was awesome. So I agreed to go every morning to do that. Get the test done. So the first morning I show up at the lobby, and I said to the concierge, I'm here to get my negative my my COVID test done. And she was thought I wouldn't buy one. I was like, no, no, I'm required to get one done. She didn't know what I was talking about. I gave her the name of the person that was supposed to meet me. She then called that person and she said yeah, she's coming. No problem. Very nice. I will say this right now. Every single employee that I dealt with at the Banff Springs Hotel was amazing. All the servers all the hotel staff, the clean the what would you call them cleaners? Sure. Every person that were there was from the minute we walked into that hotel to left word were so kind, so professional, it it was amazing. So I stood there waited and I see this woman start walking towards me a little you know, with a little bit of a aggressive walk towards me and immediately I could do tell that her tone towards me was going to be a bit negative. And so she said, this way, didn't say anything else. And we proceeded to walk to the boardroom that she was going to be doing the test, she wouldn't walk beside me. She just worked really, really fast. And when I tried to keep up with her, she picked up her speed. And right away, I could tell that she literally was making a point that because I didn't have the vaccine, that I was a danger to her health. Even though I had support showed the hotel the day prior a negative test. So we walk into the boardroom, it's a big room, she points at me and says, You sit there, there's the test there. I felt almost like she was a teacher and I was a bad student, the way she spoke to me, sat in the chair, and she proceeded to stand in the furthest corner of the boardroom as far away from me as she possibly could be. And it hurt my feelings because anyway, proceeded to get the test. And she, you know, I was confusing, and she was quite abrupt with me and I was shaking, I was so upset. And so I decided I'd stick up for myself, and I said, so I assume everyone in the convention, fitness wellness conference was going to also get tested. And she said no, like that. And I said, But why is that? She said, Well, you've chosen not to get vaccinated. And I said, but we all know that that doesn't really matter anymore. And she said, we're just following H. Hs.
Neil 1:02:09
Yeah, it was the wrong quote, because that like there wasn't an hs rule,
Tish 1:02:14
right. But I'm saying HS is at the radiation HS rules. And I looked at her. And I didn't say anything, but I knew she was lying. Because that's not the HS HS protocol. HS protocol is every three hours every three days, not every day. I just knew that I was not going to win any type of battle or argument. So the next six days was it, I proceeded to show up at the boardroom, get tested every single day, received and showed proof that I had not I had a negative test. But it didn't matter if she still decided that it was too scary for her to stand anywhere close to me, and stood not to six feet away from me, but as far away as she possibly could. And to be treated like that is with heart. But you know, I never wanted to cause a problem. I wanted to follow the rules, I was still very happy that I was there. But I have to say that I was very eager to leave. This is the province that I was born raised in for 46 years of my life. And I could not wait to get in my car and leave. And it just left such a terrible taste in my mouth. So that was the other story that we I have dealt with
Neil 1:03:51
that. No, I just think that's the best the message at the end of the day, we're gonna wrap this up. Like, if you want to be blissfully ignorant to the situation and just kind of follow rules as they're put in front of you. Go on with your daily life, like I've had people say to me, my life hasn't been affected like well, it has because it requires permission. But that's not the point. Like we can get into that to be. But I don't know that that's really what the intention here is like, it's really just to say that like if you want this to be over you have to stop treating your fellow Canadians, your neighbors, you have to stop treating those people like shit. And there has to be sort of a unified approach to this whole thing because I can tell you that people that believe that we what we believe we're gonna believe what we believe and we're not going away. So we're going to be vocal about it. And I think it's it's such a topic, topical thing that like, being ignorance just not a good excuse, I think you need to know what's going on. You need to use the term like follow the science but follow the real science
Tish 1:05:18
don't don't. And it's okay to ask questions. And it's okay to want to take your time. And make sure that what you're putting in your body is safe and going to do what it said it was going to do, I think that those things should be okay. And that's all we wanted to do is just give the vulnerable a chance to get the Wii, we were just going to sit back and see how it went. Because we felt both felt because we had had the virus before we had natural immunity, we were protected against it also protected to be spreading it more than the average person, we just needed some time to make a decision. And before you know it, we were forced, and told that we were no longer going to be allowed to live, like normal human beings in society that we were born and raised in, in a country that we were born raised in for 41 Year 47 years. And that isn't sitting well with us. And it happened fast. Because I said to Neil, how did we get here? How the hell did we get here? I hate this, I hate where we are. I hate feeling like this, I wish I could just go and get the vaccine. I don't like this. I hate it. I'm uncomfortable. But I cannot change my mind in my core value in my soul. And this is what I said to my mom, she's begging me, please just go and get the shot. I say Mum, I will be more sad, more depressed, if I do that. She understands now.
Neil 1:06:55
Yeah, I mean, and maybe the only the last thing I'll really say about it is maybe re characterize what I said before, it's like, it's not going to go away. Actually, it's not I think the overwhelming evidence. And this is not my opinion from epidemiologists all over the world is that this thing is moving into an endemic endemic phase, if it's not already there, it's not going away, you're gonna have to learn how to live with it. Arm yourself with knowledge. And by being healthy. That's it. Because for those that don't understand the definition of endemic, that basically means that everybody is going to get it. And as long as you're healthy, you should be okay. And if you want to add an extra layer of security, by going and getting this shatter vaccine, whatever you want to call it, then do that. Absolutely, you should absolutely do what's best for you totally. But in addition to that, I would I would strongly urge anybody that's listening. Don't do research on Instagram, or Twitter or Facebook. It's not what I'm saying. But if you go to the good, credible medical journals, all the information that I'm talking about, it's all there. Well, we'll maybe
Tish 1:08:09
put a few links to some of the studies we talked about underneath this podcast. So if you are interested in learning a little bit more about, you know, some credible studies that are showing certain things that are leading us to the direction of feeling that we are it'll be under there. And and I didn't want to cut you off. Did
Neil 1:08:31
you finish? No, but even I was just gonna say but more importantly, I think what you'll find the more that you learn, the less that you'll be afraid. And I fear that the majority of the fear out there is residing in people that haven't taken the effort that haven't sort of armed themselves again, I think that your best two lines of defense against this are going to be one your own level of health and to your level of knowledge and he can't just take what you see the six o'clock news verbatim because they're not hate I hate to say stuff like this because it kind of makes me feel like a bit of a conspiracy theorists, but there's a lot of fear mongering that's going on. And I think if you cut through the crap, and you actually look at real data, it'll subside those fears. I truly believe that I truly believe that we didn't even get into the stats, but whatever it just anybody wants to get into that and happy to have those conversations but it Yeah, like just
Tish 1:09:36
yeah, for some for two of us. I mean me more, even more than you we have. We've prided ourselves in being healthy and making sure that we can fight off viruses and flus that come our way. Neil and I usually get the flu once a year. We were in bed for a couple of days and then that's it. Will we get the flu shot as we get older probably But the meantime, you're you're true to your true defense and your only defense to making sure that when when and if you do get whatever variant there is out there, that if you are healthy, and you have a very strong immune system that you are going to be okay. You are going to be okay. The numbers show it what is what is the SATs 99 in our age group
Neil 1:10:28
in our age group 99.9%
Tish 1:10:30
of people who catch COVID And and, of course, if you have underlying health issues, there's that they're going to be complicated issues. And
Neil 1:10:42
but again, like that goes back to the concept of personal choice is, if that is something that you want to do for yourself, you should do that. Nothing should stop you don't second guess it even know. Just go do it. But I guess what my message for sure is, well, let's stop enforcing it on other people. Leave us alone. Because there's there there just is no one glove fits all type of solution for this.
Tish 1:11:10
There's not a black and gray suits are black and white, there's so much gray, I cannot be compared to my dad, for example. Right? Like how, why are the rules exactly the same for him than they are for me, they shouldn't be. And I know that that adds an extra layer of confusion or or work. But I think at the end of the day, if if people just let us live our life, like normal human beings, and I think we would all be much happier, and we would be less judgmental, and the divide hopefully, I feel I fear that the divide is already you just said this, you know, eventually we hope these mandates go away. Sorry, snoring dogs if they if they don't go away. Unfortunately, Neil and I have decided that we will not stay here. And that's heartbreaking, devastating for my, for my parents, for Neil's parents, to hear that it's not an easy decision. It's a painful one, especially because our parents are getting older, my dad is quite ill. And it's an agonizing thought to uproot everything that we've done already in the year we've moved here to go somewhere else. But we cannot stay in a place where these continue, we're trying to stay optimistic and positive, that eventually they will be lifted, and we will be able to live normally, again in this country. My concern and so as Neil, we were talking in our hot tub conversation last night, that we're nervous that even if they do go away, the divide is already so strong the hate for the people they feel are responsible people blame us for for this being still an issue, which clearly it is not. The divide is already there. So I really hope that that divide eventually goes away as well. Only time will tell. So in the meantime, Neil and I
Neil 1:13:28
just get smart, be healthy. That's all you can do. Yeah, that's all I can do. Legit, I get there's gonna be no other way. And I think I've done a pretty good job of avoiding opinions. But like, I'll leave you with one. I promise you. When you stop allowing other people to tell you what you can and can't do. You just be happier. You just will.
Tish 1:13:52
Not on that note. Thank you for joining me. I asked I asked him to join me here initially said no, you need to do this on your own. But then a couple days ago, he's like, Okay, fine. I'll agree to do it. And I thank you because you speak so much clearer and you are much more composed than I am. So hopefully next time, Neil is on the podcast, we have more interesting, positive things to talk about because he does have a lot more exciting and new things that are happening in his life that we would love to share. But we just thought that this was a timely thing and and it was time to share what's been going on said think some of you are probably wondering. So thank you so much. I do appreciate you listening and having an open mind and an open heart. Please be sure to tell the people that you love them that you do love them every single day. And thank you for joining in on my podcast. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Neil 1:14:55
You're welcome. Bye, everyone.
Tish 1:14:58
Thank you so much for listening. to today's episode, I hope that it leaves you feeling inspired and motivated and ultimately happier. Don't forget to check out my website train with Tish comm to learn more about me and the services that I provide. I also train you for free. If you just check out the link underneath this podcast I look forward to the next episode. Until then, live happy, be well and tell someone today that you love them.